JAGGED LITTLE PRODUCER: AN INTERVIEW WITH VIVEK J. TIWARY
Updated: Jan 19, 2022
This interview appears in the just released two-volume book CREATIVE SUCCESS IN SHOW BUSINESS: Conversations with Actors, Musicians, Filmmake and Authors Working in the Entertainment Industry. CLICK FOR DETAILS.
Vivek J. Tiwary is an acclaimed producer of live entertainment from Tony Award-winning Broadway shows to groundbreaking immersive experiences, a media financier/investor, and a #1 New York Times bestselling author. He is the founder of Tiwary Entertainment Group.
Vivek’s graphic novel The Fifth Beatle won numerous literary awards including the Will Eisner Comic Industry Award and two Harvey Awards. It’s a Lambda Literary Finalist for Best LGBT Graphic Novel and has been added to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Library and Archives. Vivek secured unprecedented access to Beatles music for its TV adaptation, now in development with Sonar Entertainment; Vivek is writer + Executive Producer.
On Broadway, Vivek’s productions have won a combined 25 Tony Awards over 44 Tony nominations and include such groundbreaking work as Green Day’s American Idiot and A Raisin In The Sun. He is currently the lead producer of Jagged Little Pill, based on Alanis Morissette’s classic album, which begins Broadway previews on Nov 3 at the Broadhurst Theatre. The musical received rave reviews and broke box office records during its sold-out pre-Broadway run.
In addition to Broadway, Vivek is a pioneering producer in the world of site-specific, tech-based, and immersive theatre. He consulted on the creation and development of The Walking Dead Escape and The Walking Dead Experience. He served on the Board of Directors for New York’s seminal GAle GAtes et al—considered to be the founders of immersive theatre. He also produced experiential shows and installations for boundary-pushing companies such as The Wooster Group, Fischerspooner, and the São Paulo Art Biennial.
Vivek is an investor who served on the Board of Directors for Valiant Entertainment, a multi-platform company that boasts the third largest universe of comic book characters, has been hailed by the New York Times as “Marvel 2.0” and has a 5-film deal with Sony Pictures.
Prior to founding TEG and online music education/empowerment company StarPolish, Vivek held a number of major label music-industry positions and has worked with artists covering the entire musical spectrum from Bruce Springsteen to Britney Spears.
Among many charitable pursuits, Vivek is the Co-Founder of Musicians On Call, a nonprofit organization that uses music and entertainment to complement the healing process.
Vivek is a magna cum laude graduate of both the Wharton School of Business and the University of Pennsylvania’s College of Arts and Sciences, and a cum laude graduate of the Collegiate School in New York City. He also holds a filmmaking certificate from The New York Film Academy and is an acting student of Susan Batson/Black Nexxus Acting Studio.
He lives in New York with his inspiring wife Tracy and their delightful children Kavi and Nandini.
I first became aware of Vivek via an online search for producers specializing in immersive theater. My show PARALLEL WORLDS had just come off an appearance at the Hollywood Fringe Festival and I was ready to stop messing around with self-producing and start looking for somebody with experience at taking original works to the next level.
While Vivek's company TIWARY ENTERTAINMENT GROUP seemed more invested in mainstream rock music projects than with immersive/multimedia projects, it was clear that this was a guy I needed to know. He had not only co-produced one of the most successful rock musicals of recent times - AMERICAN IDIOT - but his next show was based around one of the most iconic indie rock albums of the 1990s - Alanis Morisette's JAGGED LITTLE PILL.
This had to be the guy!
So as I've done hundreds of times in the past I went ahead and reached out - figuring I'd probably get the usual run around from his assistant or manager. Impressively Vivek got back to me himself and so began a series of very rewarding conversations between the two of us.
Although Vivek was slammed with producing duties on Jagged Little Pill which was just completing its critically acclaimed tryout in Boston and preparing for its Broadway run, he was more than willing to act as a consultant as I began moving forward with taking Parallel Worlds to the next level.
This guy was clearly different from most producers and executives I've encountered over the years. Vivek had a sense of humility and generosity that really spoke to me.
Now here comes the even stranger part. A few months later Vivek asked if I could send him a video of the most recent performance of the show so he could better offer support and even the possibility of collaboration down the line. Unfortunately, I didn't feel any single performance video best represented the show so I set about piecing together footage from various stagings I felt would represent the best moments from each incarnation.
And that's when it hit me. I wasn't ready.
Believe me, if at any other moment in my life the producer of American Idiot, Raisin in the Sun and the upcoming Broadway sensation Jagged Little Pill personally asked to see a sample of my passion project - a show that I had devoted the past 8 years of my life to - I would have literally jumped at the chance.
But a little voice inside nudged me to have courage enough to politely decline. Why?
Because I had recently decided to take a break from pushing forward at all costs with the show and do some work on myself, on my approach to life and work - and most importantly to devote more time to my family and to the spiritual journey I'd begun that I felt was necessary to prepare me for any further creative work I might do.
I also realized that the absolute best way to showcase the potential of the show was to first turn it into a film. Vivek agreed wholeheartedly with this idea as it would be the easiest and most direct way for producers and investors to see the potential of the concept.
So that's exactly what I'm doing. As of this writing I'm currently in post-production on an independent film version of Parallel Worlds: A Rock-N-Roll Love Story.
It’s been quite a year for you, my friend.
It’s been a great year! I will admit that I am busier than I think I’ve ever been. But it’s all good busy so I can’t complain.
That’s not a bad problem to have.
It is the best kind of problem to have indeed.
It appears that by the end of the year the name Vivek Tiwary could be as well known as the name Cameron Mackintosh.
I don’t know about that. But thank you. That’s very kind of you. I would not start comparing myself to Cameron Mackintosh but on the same token, I don’t want to be Cameron Mackintosh. I’m happy being Vivek Tiwary, you know? But thank you for the kind words that’s very generous of you.
So in our talks over the past several months I’ve recognized something different in you than others with similar degrees of success. You seem to have a healthy sense of humility – which is fairly uncommon at least in my experience.
Thank you, Brandon.
So how did your creative life start?
It all starts with nature vs nurture you know. I am a product of my parents and the place I grew up in and I’m grateful for it. I grew up in NYC I was born in 1973. My parents are immigrants, my family is originally from India.
My mother was an attorney and my dad was a doctor so neither of them worked in the arts but they loved the arts. I grew up on 12th street on the lower east side and ever since I was a little kid my parents were taking me uptown to see the Metropolitan Opera, Broadway shows, NYC ballet. They were taking me but I wasn’t interested. (laughs).
I remember as a little kid being bored to tears with the ballet. But I remember when there was a shift and all of a sudden I got it and I understood how ballet was really beautiful.
And I remember conversations with my teenage guy friends when I was trying to explain about some of the stuff the NYC ballet was doing was, in my mind, as cool and avant-garde as some of the stuff Sonic Youth was doing down at CBGBs.
So my parents are taking me uptown to see theater and on weekends I’m going downtown to places like CBGBs and the Danceteria and La Mama and I was seeing all these amazing concerts and experimental theater.
But the lower east side, in particular, was just a hotbed for the arts and at the time it was 21 to drink but it was 16 to get in and no one carded for 16 so if you didn’t care about drinking which I almost always didn’t you could see anything.
And when the sun went down in the lower east side virtually every storefront and tattoo parlor and skate shop would pitch a stage and host a performance. So it was an absolutely amazing time to grow up for the arts in the city and that’s where I got my love of the arts was through my parents and my background.
My grandfather, who was also a huge influence on my life, was a very successful entrepreneur and started a network of family businesses and as I was growing up he always told me “There are two things in life. You need to work for yourself and you need to do what you love.”
Now what I think he meant by work for yourself is to work for the family but I took him at his word. And that was my dream ever since I was a kid. My dream was to work in the arts and entertainment industry and to start a company for myself.
How long have you had your own company?
I started my company, Tiwary Entertainment Group, twenty years ago but before that, I was working for record labels. I was at Mercury Records division of Polygram about three years after I graduated college and I loved it and used the experience. But my end goal was to start my own company so even when I had “jobs” I would say “Okay this is what I’m doing, for now, to extend my education until I’m ready.”
But you know the deal, just because I’m now doing exactly what I love doesn’t always mean life is easy. You know, I think people tend to conflate those two things. I think if you have the perspective, and I’ll be the first to admit I haven’t always had it, but if you have the perspective to take a step back and realize that if you’re doing what you love then life is good but that doesn’t necessarily mean life is easy.
It can be very stressful to pursue the path of your dreams. But if that’s what you’re doing day in and day out then I think you’re a very lucky person. I think I’ve been a very lucky person but that doesn’t mean it was always easy to have a job and it doesn’t mean that every day of working for my company has been easy.
Running a company has been very very hard. In some ways, it might have been easier to have been on the clock working 9-5 working for someone else but that’s not what I wanted to do. And as a result, I have zero regrets.
I would ask if you feel you’ve made any mistakes along the way but something tells me you’d just say they were all blessings in disguise.
Yeah, it feels like such a self-help thing to say but the truth is I generally really don’t believe in the word failure. I think that all of those things were learning experiences. And I guess I could say that I am proud to say that the things that didn’t work or were learning experiences didn’t hurt anybody.
Like all my shows for example on Broadway have been hits or minor hits. In other words, I haven’t lost anyone ridiculous amounts of money so no one was upset there. But to be a little less spin-doctory...one of my disappointments was that I was not successful at artist management. I had a music management company. I guess when I say successful I mean the amount of time and resources I was spending on it compared to the return I was seeing just wasn’t comparable to some of the other things including my theater pursuits.
My management company was breaking even or making a little bit of money so it wasn’t a failure in that sense but it wasn’t growing and none of my artists I was able to turn into megastars or anything like that. But when I decided to shut that company down I told all the artists, I said look, I need to get out of this space I just need to focus on other things but I’ll keep managing you until we either find you another manager or until you feel comfortable taking over your career on your own.
I guess I’m a little fortunate to say that my failures have not fallen into the bracket where someone got hurt or somebody’s career suffered for it. And if that’s the case then they’re all learning experiences. Because here I am twenty years later and I’m really happy and my projects are doing really well and everything along the way led to that.
I mean maybe if I hadn’t been a failed artist manager I wouldn’t have had the perspective to write a graphic novel about who I consider to be the greatest artist manager – Brian Epstein. So I feel that my experience doing artist management helped qualify me to be adapting my graphic novel into a TV show.
So it’s all a journey to get to where you are. If you’re happy with where you are or where you’re going then I don’t think it’s useful to look back on the past and say well that was a failure. It’s more useful to say okay, that didn’t turn out the way I thought it would but can I learn from it? And how does that help me get to the next place?
I hear you. My first film lost our investors almost a million big ones. And my rock show (and now film) Parallel Worlds cost my wife and me our entire life savings and sunk us into hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. Serious life/business lessons learned? Check!
(laughs) The truth of it is that while I’ve never lost anyone else money I’ve certainly lost myself money. I’ve invested in things and done things that lost money so I can relate to what you’re saying like “I lost my wife and I x-number of dollars.” I’ve had that experience too but I guess for me it’s about taking the long perspective and being like “where am I right now?” and right now I’m good, I’m not stinking rich but I’m good. I’m sending my kids to great schools in NYC and I’m doing what I love and got a roof over my head and have a few luxury items in my life that I enjoy like a nice place upstate.
You know, I’m really lucky and I’m good and so the bad investments I made over the past, like again, maybe that was a learning experience, maybe that taught me what a good investment is or how to treat my investors but that doesn’t mean that I didn’t have things that I did wrong over the years.
Jagged Little Pill is really moving right now, we put tickets on sale last week and sales are great and knock wood but I hope that we’ll have a very successful show when we open in November. But by the time we open it will have been 9 years since I first sat down with Alanis. Literally 9 years and that’s not unusual.
I’ve been working on the 5th Beatle for well over a decade. These things just take time. But along the way, there are those days where I did have trouble paying the bills so it wasn’t always smooth sailing but that’s okay, that’s the life I’ve chosen for myself, that’s the way the entertainment industry is and I love it. I feel very lucky that I’ve been able to choose my own path.
Where did the idea come from to do the show?
I’m a music kid at heart and like I mentioned earlier when I wasn’t working for myself I was working for record labels and music distribution companies. And I would say growing up in the city music was my first love, going to concerts and rock shows and places like CBGBs and that’s where I developed my own tastes for art.
So music has always been my first love. I was a producer on American Idiot the Green Day musical and as you know I wrote a graphic novel about the Beatles manager which we’re turning into a TV show and so this has become very much my world. I secured the Beatles music rights very famously for the 5th Beatle TV adaptation and that’s the first time anyone has ever pulled that off.
It’s the first and only time to date the Beatles have given their music rights to a non-documentary that’s about the band so I’m very proud of that and I was also a part of the team that secured the rights to the music for American Idiot and collaborated with Green Day so this is kind of a thing that I do, working with rock and pop stars and adapting their work into shows and storytelling.
And so I was looking for my next project and, to give credit where it’s due, my partner on Jagged Little Pill Arvind David, he said to me “You know I always thought Jagged Little Pill would make a great musical.” And Arvind is a TV guy he’s not a Broadway guy, although he did produce theater in the UK before he moved to L.A. to work on television.
But I thought “Man that’s a good idea.” So I went home and listened to the record for the first time with musical theater ears and thought “This is an idea worth pursuing.” And so I called Arvind and said I’m going to do this but it was your idea so if you want to do it with me you should do it, you deserve to be a part of this ride if it’s something you want to pursue." And he said, "Yeah it’s an idea I’ve had for many years now and I’d like to pursue it so let’s do it."
And that’s how it started. But it came out of my career and working with these famous artists and music catalogs and looking for the next one. I was getting phone calls and taking meetings with some amazing musicians and artists but I wasn’t finding a project that hooked me.
It was either these amazing artists who had ideas that I didn’t think were so great or artists who had amazing albums and great catalogs but they didn’t have any ideas for how to tell a story around it and I couldn’t think of one either.
So Jagged was the first one that fired on all cylinders, the songs felt theatrical to me, the album felt like it had themes in it, that belonged in a storytelling fashion. And I did not want to tell Alanis’ story even though the album is very biographical.
We got Diablo Cody to write a brand new story. In that first meeting with Alanis, I said "I don’t want to tell your life story. I’d like to use Jagged Little Pill and honor what I think is the legacy of the album."
It’s an album that made us confront uncomfortable truths in the world. And what are the uncomfortable truths of today, the issues of today that need talking about? Let’s write a story about that. And so that’s what Diablo Cody did, she wrote a story that’s contemporary and funny.
She’s a comedy writer at heart but it also deals with important issues of the day including things like sexual assault and opioid addictions. But I will underscore again that it is funny in the way that she won the Academy Award for JUNO. It's a film about teen pregnancy but it’s funny. That’s what she does. And so that’s what she did with Jagged Little Pill.
I’ve heard it’ll be the most “woke” musical on Broadway.
That’s what the Times said yeah. We’ll see. Thank you. That’s what we’re working towards. We are certainly hoping to walk more in the footsteps of shows like RENT and HAIR and LA BOHEME years before that. They're timely but also timeless.
Rent was in large part about the AIDS crisis but has gone on to become a timeless story about struggle and Hair was very much about the post-Vietnam era and the Hippie movement but also feels very timeless. I hope that we’re doing something with Jagged Little Pill that feels very much 2019-2020 but will also be revived 30 years from now and will still feel relevant.
Yeah, it’s a very point in time album, very 90s, something that people could get nostalgic about but it’s cool that you’re going the other direction.
Yeah, we’re making a point to not do that. There are shows like Rock of Ages that really play into the 80s hair metal of the source material and we very clearly said we’re not setting this piece in the 1990s and this is not a nostalgic period piece. It’s a piece that takes place in 2019. And shows you how the songs are still relevant.
One of the themes I'm exploring in my spiritual journey is how artists like us can so easily get trapped by desiring validation through success. We can sometimes start to look at our lives in general as failures based solely on unmet or unrealistic career expectations.
And I've come to realize how damaging and destructive that can be. I'm now trying to find balance, to recognize how magical and meaningful life can be in and of itself - regardless of whether or not I "make it" in the entertainment industry.
So to that point, have you had a change of priorities at all since your younger days?
Ultimately in my life, the thing that I care most about, holistically, looking at my entire life, is my family. I adore my wife and I have a fantastic relationship and marriage and my kids are happy and healthy and they inspire me daily.
So by that metric and I’m a complete person. And I’m also wise enough to know that those are fragile things too, that marriage is something you need to continue to work on. Parenthood is difficult and you need to continue to work with your children to make sure they continue to be healthy and happy and continue to inspire you and hopefully, you can inspire them.
So I’m constantly working on my role as a husband and a father but I think I’m doing a pretty good job. (laughs) You’d have to ask them to be sure but I believe I am and as such I’m really happy with that. So that’s the most important thing to me.
My professional life is also important but I will readily admit that it is secondary to my family but…looking at number two, my goal with my professional life has been to, even though it sounds a bit dorky and academic, and I remember thinking about this years ago when I started my company..is to create or cause to be created a body of work that would inspire, and hopefully even inspire generations long after I’m gone.
That’s the kind of work that I either wanted to create myself as a writer or producer or cause to be created as a manager or producer of other people’s work so to speak. And now that I’m 20 years in, I really can look back and say that I’ve done at least some of that. I think American Idiot was a really inspiring piece of work and I think Jagged Little Pill is going to be that as well.
And I know that there are a number of people in the world that now know the Brian Epstein story in ways that they didn’t prior to my telling that story. And so I really feel that I’m doing good work. Everybody told us when we were producing Raisin in the Sun that we were crazy, that African Americans don’t come to Broadway, kids don’t come to Broadway and that was in large part because we cast Sean Combs, P. Diddy as the male lead and people said "Hip Hop bands won’t come and kids won’t come and African Americans don’t come so you’re crazy" and we thought that was absurd.
You give people something they want to see and you make sure they know it’s there and they will come. And they did. And I’m not saying we were the only show that treads that path but I think we were one of the shows that opened the doors and changed the game on Broadway.
Now African Americans are coming and people of all colors coming. American Idiot helped to prove that young people and punk rock fans and punk-pop fans, those audiences are going to come. And again, I’m not saying we’re solely responsible for that but I think there were a number of shows that inspired new audiences and new people to the field and those are the things I set out to do and feel like I’ve done them and I’m continuing to do them.
So by the metrics I’ve set for myself, I think I’m doing alright. There are still things I want to accomplish and like I said parenting and marriages can be fragile and they continue to need work. And you know as well as I do that the entertainment industry can be incredibly volatile and so I need to keep at it if I want to continue to do good work.
So I’m still working very hard on the things I’ve chosen to work hard at. It’s been a roller coaster. I don’t use the word failure but there have certainly been things along the way that weren’t as successful as others. But the result of where I’m at is I’m feeling really good about the work that I’ve left behind professionally and about the family that I love and I’m a part of.
So if the show is a hit will you be good or will you have that urge to top it?
This is something that I just know about myself. I am an ambitious person and that is good in some ways and it's bad in others. But I don’t foresee me coming to a point in my life where I’m like “I’m good. I’ve done good work, I’m going to chill now. I’m gonna retire.” (laughs)
That said, I don’t get comparative. I don’t look at my projects and say this one needs to be bigger, whatever that means than the one before it. So I don’t compare projects. But I do have a number of things that I’m developing while working on Jagged Little Pill and 5th Beatle - other TV, comic, and theater projects that I’ve been developing for several years and I’m proud of all of them.
I think they’re all great and hopefully by the end of the year one or two of them will move from development to a place of more activity, will be on its way to being shot or picked up or workshopped or published depending on what medium the piece is in.
So like I said I don’t compare those to previous work but they’re all things that I’m ambitious about and hope will all hold their own. None of them would be a step back. But I never say "I did Green Day so who’s next the Beatles?" I just don’t look at it that way.
But I do look at in a way of like, I’m a commercial producer and in terms of producing commercially who are the other commercial musicians that are on that kind of a plane – who is like a Green Day or Beatles or Alanis Morrisette and have a large fan base and have mainstream appeal and have commercial viability for storytelling?
I do think about those kinds of things and as a result, there are several composers and musical artists that I love that I’m probably not going to want to do a show around because they aren’t commercial enough. I’m a commercial producer that’s what I do.
So I do think about things comparatively in that sense – can it work in a very mainstream commercial way? And I’m not saying that that makes it better, that’s just what I do. I love a lot of Off-Broadway, experimental theater, and indie rock bands. I love a lot of those artists but that’s just not what I do as a producer.
It sounds like you’ve dialed in your niche.
Yeah, I am who I am and for me, that has been a huge part of getting to a place now where I’m comfortable with my success. I just know who I am and I know what I’m good at and I want to work with people who I like working with and who like working with me.
So if I sat down with Alanis Morrisette, and this is not a true example, but if she was also sitting down with Cameron Mackintosh and she decided, you know what, he’s produced more hits and I’m going to work with Cameron Mackintosh but thanks for the meeting Vivek, I would be like "Okay great."
I wouldn’t be upset by that because if she wants to work with Cameron Mackintosh then I’m not the right fit. I don’t get competitive in that way. Certainly, there are projects that I’m chasing that other people are interested in. I was not the first person to ask Alanis to do something with Jagged or Green Day to do something with American Idiot or the Beatles for their catalog but I was the guy they said yes to.
But what that makes me do is not to compete with the other guy or gal but to be very crystal clear about what I’m doing and what I want. I need to present my idea for the 5th Beatle and Jagged Little Pill as honestly and as clearly and as true as I possibly can. And if I’ve done that then I’ve won. I’ve already won.
Because if I’ve done that they’re going to tell me I love that idea and I’m in or they’re going to chose another idea and it was never meant to be in the first place. Because if you’re not into my idea and I was honest and clear with it then they didn’t want to work with me and they didn’t like Vivek as much as they like Cameron and that’s cool.
Not everybody is going to be a Vivek person. Some people are going to be Cameron people. And that’s totally cool. To me, the trick is making sure that you’ve really wrapped your head around your idea and particularly where your passion is.
Because sometimes sitting down in those meetings I don’t have the ideas worked out but I have a passion for it. And if they can see my passion and they’re like "I want to work with this guy. I want to work with the passion guy" then I’ve succeeded.
You have your own brand and they either want that brand or…
Yeah I think that’s right and you know, look, let me be honest I’m twenty years in now and it’s taken me just about that long to figure out what that brand is and who I am.
Has your definition of success changed at all in those twenty years?
Only in as much as my priorities have changed. I think a long time ago I realized that I’m a person that is driven by passion and inspiration and that’s how I pick what I do with my life and how I decided that I want to create or cause to be created a body of work that will inspire people and hopefully generations of people long after I’m gone.
I move from passion to passion so I like to create projects that will instill passion and inspiration. So that hasn’t changed but what has changed is my priorities and my perspective just by getting older. Like when I met Tracy, the woman who became my serious girlfriend who then became my fiancé who then became my wife who then became the mother of my children..through all of those steps my priorities changed.
I said "You know what? My fiancé is more important to me than my work life because I’m about to become a husband." And when I had kids you know that will put a whole new spin on things. So as I told you earlier in this call the most important thing in my life is my immediate family. My son is ten so twelve years ago I didn’t have those kids.
So yes my definitions, my perspectives on all of those things have changed but the fact that I’m a person who is driven by passion and inspiration that has been the case since as long as I can remember. I guess to be a little bit more eloquent at answering your question I don’t think that my definitions of success have changed but I think my perspective on when I’ve gotten to that success has changed.
And that has changed through my life experiences. Through things like having successes on Broadway and having a successful graphic novel and then in my personal life becoming a husband and becoming a dad. You know those life moments have changed my perspective on success. But I don’t think that it’s changed what success means to me if that makes any sense.
Yeah, you get to define what success is – not the industry or magazines or other people.
It’s been great talking to Vivek, I wish you great success with Jagged Little Pill and 5th Beatle. I’m sure they're going to be big hits and amazing experiences.
Thank you so much. Yeah, there’s a lot to get done but it’s the right kind of busy. But keep in mind these things take time. The 5th Beatle I am confident that I will get the television show off the ground in the next couple of years and that will have been…I couldn’t even tell you. I started researching Brian’s life when I was in college. So ever since 1991 so several decades I’ve been working on that one. And that will have been my longtime labor of love.
These things just take time. And as long as you can’t say "You know what, my life is changed and I’m just not excited about that anymore." And if that’s the case then right on, move onto the thing that’s exciting you. But as long as something is still exiting you just regroup and recharge and stick with it.
I hear you. I’ve been doing this straight for 30 years. I’ve never missed a day. Every day I wake up just as excited as the day before if not more excited to make something happen. I’m always excited. That’s never going to change. But I think lately I might be maturing – as hard to believe is that is! I'm realizing that life is so much more than pushing towards success. We have to breath the air, smell the roses and enjoy the little things. There’s a bigger picture and more to life than getting slaps on the back for making cool films or musicals. That feels good for like 5 seconds.
True. I think you’re exactly right. I mean, in all honesty, it’s probably a bit more than five seconds. (laughs) But it’s limited, right? It’s not going to last forever.
Nope. Break a leg brother.
Thanks so much, Brandon. It was great talking to you. And in regards to Parallel Worlds if I can advise, support and be a friend to you and the project I continue to offer that.